My legs still ache 3-4 days after legs day
I have been working out for ~6 months and have worked my legs once per week throughout this time, on their own day.
My legs, especially my quads, ache to the point of finding it hard to walk, particularly up or down stairs, for between 3-4 days after a leg workout. At first (the initial month or two) I thought to myself this is great because it meant I did good during my workout. Now 6 months on I am starting to think I'm doing something wrong, mainly because of the duration of soreness.
My current legs routine is:
- 4x5 Squats (on the Smith Machine because can't get the balance right for a proper squat). - 4x10 Incline leg press machine. - 3x15 Calf extension on leg press machine. - 3x10 Leg extension ^ Superset with 3x10 Leg curl machine.
I'm pretty confident that I am getting adequate recovery time and resources; I get an average of 7 hours sleep per night and have been forcing myself to eat up to 5 times per day.
Some factors that may provide information about why this would be happening:
- As a web developer, I sit at a PC for the majority of the day and don't move my legs much.
- I don't make any time to stretch out my legs or anything, not sure if that will impact.
- I don't do any cardio (bike / treadmill), again not sure if that impacts.
Is this common, and is there a way to reduce the duration or magnitude of soreness?
I get more DOMS (and worse results) when there's too much time between workouts. I'd try to incorporate one more leg day/per week. Many beginner programs have squats three times/week.
Like Markus says, workout legs more often. Ever since I started doing squats every workout, I no longer get DOMS in my quads, and I'm actually squatting more every workout than I did when I only did legs once a week.
It's normal, and as long as you're training your legs hard, they're just going to hurt. I've been training my legs hard for 12 years, and it usually takes me 5 days to fully recover. Going long periods of time sitting at a desk w/o moving your legs contributes a lot to stiffness. Try doing this: The day after your leg workout, go back to the gym and do a couple of sets to work your quads, not to failure, but burn them good. Most people find that helps reduce soreness.
Stretch, every day. It doesn't take long. I tend to do it after working out and on non-workout days in the evening
@Shane I did a couple light sets on incline leg press between sets yesterday and it seems to have helped a lot for the stiffness, but they're probably even sorer than they would have been.
@Marty I'm just a fellow weight lifter & I can't tell the advantages of a foam roller enough. Doing foam roller stretching exercises post-workout diminishes most of the pain. Give it a try.
The bizarre thing about delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is that we still don't really know what causes it. Though people like to attribute it to lactic acid buildup, that's probably a misconception. As stated in the article:
Researchers who have examined lactate levels right after exercise found little correlation with the level of muscle soreness felt a few days later.
Referencing Nosaka's research published in this book, Wikipedia goes on to explain:
Two other hypotheses that have been advanced to explain the soreness, muscle spasms and the presence of lactic acid in the muscle, are now considered unlikely to be correct, since there is evidence to refute them.
Common sense would lead us to believe that the soreness is caused from tissue damage. I think that's probably the case, and I agree with the article when it says:
Though the precise cause of DOMS is still unknown, most research points to actual muscle cell damage and an elevated release of various metabolites into the tissue surrounding the muscle cells.
I suppose that it may possibly tie back to how muscles work in an anaerobic state, which we explored in one of your previous questions.
As for prevention, I'm sure we've all heard numerous remedies. Most of these have turned out to be false, including stretching and warming up. However, as described in this publication, gradually increasing the intensity may mitigate some of the soreness. Since you've been working your legs for over six months already, that might not be relevant.
In any case, if we act on the hypothesis that DOMS is caused by tissue damage (which I think we should), and if we can't reduce that damage by lowering our workout intensity, that leaves us with the option of doing what we can to speed recovery after the damage has occurred.
The answer involves knowing a bit about how the lymphatic system works in the body (in relation to tissue damage). Among other things, your body uses lymph to collect and flush damaged cells. The lymph is transported by one-way vessels throughout your body and eventually drains into the subclavian veins. The important thing to note is that lymph is not pumped like blood through a closed system, but rather "drains" with the aid of muscle contraction, gravity, etc.
So if the lymphatic system is how the body cleans up damaged tissues, and your DOMS are actually caused by tissue damage, recovering from your tissue damage means doing everything you can to help that system perform as well as it can. I'm sure this video, in which Kelly Starrett (KStarr) et. al. describe that very thing in detail has been posted here before. The old belief that rest, ice, compression, elevation (RICE) is the best way to treat this type of damage is wrong. As described in the video, rest and ice actually have a negative effect on lymph's ability to move around, so does anti-inflammatory medication.
The article that goes along with KStarr's video offers what I think is the best and most current treatment: movement, compression, elevation (MCE). Movement will keep the lymph pumping, short compression treatments (massage, compression bands, etc) will also help push lymph, and elevation will also aid in moving the lymph. Since I squat three times a week, personally I do full range bosu ball squats (as recommended by KStarr in this video) to clean up soreness and stiffness. If you think about the iterations of contraction and relaxation the muscles have to do to balance in this movement, it seems an ideal way to pump lymph.
Additionally, since lymph is "recycled" blood plasma (which is 90% water) staying hydrated is a good idea. As numerous resources I've linked have mentioned, making sure you're receiving proper nutrition and managing electrolytes will also help.
The linked resources offer a ton of information on the subject matter if you'd like to find out more. What seems to be the consensus is that the best way to treat your DOMS is probably movement, hydration, nutrition, electrolytes, compression treatments, and elevation.
You missed an important point, "RICE is considered a first-aid treatment." If you're forced to rely on RICE (or MCE) for relief from every workout then you're probably dealing with an injury not DOMS. If it's just regular DOMS, move around, do some light dynamic stretches, maybe light exercise to increase circulation.
@EvanPlaice "So if the lymphatic system is how the body cleans up damaged tissues, and your DOMS are actually caused by tissue damage, recovering from your tissue damage means doing everything you can to help that system perform as well as it can."
What I'm saying is, the RICE treatment (whether it works or not) is only meant to treat injuries. You're mixing injury treatment with DOMS prevention. They're two completely different topics. If the point you're trying to make is, "increase circulation on rest days to improve recovery times" then cover that but remove the ambiguous/unrelated stuff about injury treatment.
What distinction is there between injury and damaged tissue? If you'd like to discuss this further let's take it to chat.
If my legs hurt every time I did leg workouts, then I'd focus on my legs more. Squatting more often would be the priority.
Specifically, unless you're squatting (below parallel) more than bodyweight, I would squat more often--perhaps every workout, or a majority of workouts--and eliminate the other non-squat leg exercises. This would let your 4x5, 5x5, or 6x6 progression do its job of making big and strong legs, without being burdened by the other work that probably isn't as productive. By squatting more frequently, I'd still be working my legs with a comparable amount of total volume, but spread out over more workouts.
If your goal is physique instead of athletics, then I would do squats and maybe some calf raises for all my leg work, per Arnold Schwarzenegger's beginner program. Reducing volume while staying challenged is a good way to reduce soreness while still making progress.
I have been practicing differents sports and I can tell that the key is to strech and keep hydrated before, during, and after your efforts.
As a web developer, I sit at a PC for the majority of the day and don't move my legs much.
Same for me here
I don't make any time to stretch out my legs or anything, not sure if that will impact.
Yes it does
I don't do any cardio (bike / treadmill), again not sure if that impacts.
Yes it does too.
Before the workout, it is important to do a little bit of cardio to warm up, at least 5min. Going straight to high intensity exercices is traumatising for your muscles and tendons, and they will make you pay back for this!
During the effort the rule of thumb is to drink water as often as possible, in small quantities.
After your workout, you should spend at least 15min stretching, keep each streching position about 20sec (calves, quads, hamstring, groin, butt) and pay attention to breath deeply. Then again, drink a lot of water, water is your friend (or drinks such as gatorade, or even better, coconut water!!).
After intense exercice, I sometimes take an aspirin, that works well. And, I know its hard, but on the day after, 15 min of cardio + stretching help too.
You need a full body deep tissue massage. Then purchase a deep tissue foam roller. To me it sounds like your leg muscles have shortened and are kind of twisted up. This can be caused by strains, poor posture, or by simply not doing the exercise correctly. Once you've gotten a massage and legs are feeling back to normal, you need to start with light weights, be performing 10-15 reps, and just be focusing on perfecting your form. Then, you can gradually move into heavier weights and lower reps.
The first and best way to check if youre doing something wrong is to check your progress. If you find yourself on a plateau, then probably someting is wrong. What are your weekly/monthly weight increments? Have you failed to meet them? If not, youre probably doing fine.
As for the soreness, a bit of stretching after the workout wouldnt hurt. Also some mild activity in the regeneration phase. Try walking to work instead of using the car, or simply have a walk when the soreness kicks in. It will improve the bloodflow and help the muscle regenarate. Dont push it too hard tho - remember that you are resting.
Also make sure youre eating enough protein. Bad diet could also be a cause of slower/no progress.
You might want to try changing your traning program to whole body workouts 3 times a week. You probably will see quicker results by doing so, and the legs would get their workout more often - they could accomodate to the stress, and your DOMS shouldnt be so bad. As far as I know, the one-bodypart-a-day training programs are quite specific and targeted at advanced bodybuilders. It seems to me you are just trying to get/keep fit, and for that purpose, a whole body training program might do a better job.
On a side note, I think you should focus on free weights wherever possible. I see you are doing a lot of machine exercises. Machines look all fancy and cool, and make it very hard to hurt yourself while using them, but make it very easy to hurt yourself when doing some actual real life lifting. The machines are designed to force a particular movement. Your big muscles are doing the work and they get stronger, but the little stabilizing muscles have nothing to do, since the machine keeps the weight steady and makes it move the correct way. The stabilizing muscles are weak, and when you try to lift something heavy, they cannot hold everything in place as they are sopposed to and bam!, you end up with an injury.
Try to get a specialist to teach you proper form and try doing freeweight exercises. They are better for you :)
A couple ideas:
1) Check your nutrition, specifically after your lifts. Try eating a recovery meal that consists of a 4:1 ratio of carbs to protein within 90 minutes of lifting. If you can't get a meal in that time, try drinking a protein shake that contains carbs.
2) Use a foam roller - The foam roller was game changer for me. It hurts like crazy rolling over knots in your legs, but it helped me quite a bit getting over the soreness quicker. It also helps prevent and treat minor muscle injuries. Here's my foam rolling routine http://joefitness.com/you-need-a-foam-roller-heres-why/ (sorry for the self serving link)
3) Spend more time warming up and cooling down, don't just go right into working out.
4) You're doing a lot of pressing (quad dominate) exercises, add more pulling like deadlifts to help balance out the workout. Won't help much with the soreness, but it may take stress off the front part of your legs.
Mark Rippetoe believes that DOMS is caused by eccentric muscle contraction, volume, and lack of adaptation. If working out more frequently doesn't help you adapt, then try doing leg exercises with no eccentric component, such as sled pushes.
I had a period where DOMS seemed to go on all week, and the answer was a little scary. I was on statins for cholesterol control at the time. One of the side effects is muscle pain through rhabdomyolysis. Doctor confirmed this was happening with a blood test - creatine kinase were off the charts.
My doctor took me off the meds, I was told to take it easy at the gym and seriously increase my water consumption -- especially if exercising.
None of this may apply to you, but the moral of the story is that if something does not feel right, see a doctor.
Stretching, hydration, rest, nutrition all play a part in staving off DOMS. However, as Daniel states: getting the lymphatic system to drain more effectively is key in shortening the duration of DOMS.
Hot/Cold shower rotation will get the system going as your bodily tissues expand and contract with the temperature changes.
Skipping (Jump Rope) is also a fantastic post-leg day exercise. 2 days AFTER leg day, skipping can be a great source of cardio/caloric burn, and the shaking/jumping is a great way to "shake" up the lymphatic system.